Tell us about your experiences
Thanks to all who participated in the conversation! We are no longer posting new comments.
We asked:
- How long have you waited? Tell us about your experience trying to access a quality space for your child.
- If you are a parent, tell us whether fees for quality child care are affordable for you.
- If you work in child care, tell us what it would take for you to make a living wage.
05 May 2008
As a stay at home mother of two school aged children and trying to also make an income providing daycare so that I can be at home with my children I find the restriction of two children very frustrating.I think that they need to take into consideration the age of my children and the fact that these parents want me to look after they’re child because they don’t trust anyone else.What about shift work parents that are required to pay full time care even though their child is only there once in a while.Not everyone has a relative to look after their child.I am not wanting to take on 6 children so getting licensed and taking on all those costs are not practical.But what if I look after 2 siblings and one starts school.Then I can’t take on another child to make up that income and I am left to send that family on their way.If there is a lack in daycare I think we need to look at the needs of all families in todays society.I think that parents should have a choice.Why is it that I could look after 4 of my relatives and my own two children but not 3 non-related children.That still would put 6 kids in my care.It doesn’t make sense. Frustrated
I am a 22 year old mother who had a steady paying job but recently had to resign on August 31st 2009 due to not being able to find child care in my community. For a month my supervisor asked for my hours and told me that we could work something out as I was without childcare. Just before my daughters 1st birthday my supervisor told me that she was informed that they could not accommodate me even for 6 months.
On August 17th I returned to work not wanting to give up, not wanting to resign as I knew what that could do to the family. Trying to work it out with my partner’s schedule and my own was impossible. I am scared, worried and without a huge part of my family’s income. Even after all the expenses in child care I would at least bring home 800.00 which to some is not much but now it is ZERO! I am a positive thinker therefore I have already set new goals for my family but even if I did want pursue those how would I with no child care and really no means to pay for it? How will I better this family?
NO Child Care = NO Job
As a father & Husband/Owner of a couple preschools/childcare centers in a school district and the private sector I would like to offer an alternative view to childcare in BC, but it should apply in most places.
CHILDCARE COSTS - If you do not qualify for any level of subsidy then take the $7000.00 childcare tax deduction per child. (4000.00 per child over 7 years old). Low income earners need to manage the $100 fed bonus + the $300 bcbonus + $75 gst cheque + misc. with restraint and not disdain.
GOV’T RUN PRESCHOOL/DAYCARE - It has been suggested children aged 3, 4 & 5 joining the public school system is a positive development. While it would be beneficial to individual adults struggling for daycare, and hence relieve family stress, there is no evidence institutional care will meet childrens’ developmental needs as posited by minimal ECE standards. It will be contrary.
NON-PROFIT vs FOR PROFIT - a study out of Toronto is cited often, and is usually the only source, concluding the non-profits are ‘better’ (Gordon Cleveland and Michael Krashinsky ). This study is skewed. It seems they compared family care (the lowest and most common in our food chain) to well funded Non Profits. It has been my experience Non profits deteriorate into political hobby horses and childcare takes a backseat. This is my experience as a board member and associate. They don’t take into account momcare grosses $10 per hour where Non-Profits $25 per hour with fewer costs (rough figures).
THE FUTURE - We have many issues in Canada: Poverty, Special Needs, Family destructure/ Parent incompetence, however with the ECE knowledge we have and the tools available we can do an amazing job in Canada. Better than anywhere else. It is a slow process and I cannot claim to know where exactlt it is leading, but it will be better than the Scandinavian or british/european models where they essentially pay adults to monitor growth and safety. It seems a waste when so much more can be done and is being done, in my centers.
If these points can be refuted by facts please set me straight.
cheers
I’am a Montessori Teacher/ Business Owner I have been trying for about one month and a half to open a Montessori Preschool and it has been IMPOSSIBLE to find a SPACE to Rent. I can enroll 60 children but dont have the space. The city really needs to look into building or helping to find space to help out communities.
In my previous post saying we were on the wait list 2.5 years, I forgot to mention that the wait list is currently 1500 families for the facility we got into. That is after it opened 100 new spots just this year. The wait list is still that long. I wonder what could even potentially solve that seemingly insane wait.
We live in Vancouver, and put our child on the wait list for the day care near our home about 2 weeks after we found out we were pregnant. Two years and six months later, we got him a spot at a toddler center (he was 22 months old when he got in). We knew before we got pregnant that the wait list was around 2 years long, so we had to think long and hard about whether or not we could afford some alternative for 2 years before we even decided to have a child. I have to admit that the cost of child care, whether in our own home, in someone else’s home, or in a group setting, has serious impacts on our decision whether to have a child in the first place, and then has had an even greater impact on our decision not to have more than one. Living in Vancouver, our mortgage is already ridiculously high, and doubling our childcare costs on top of this is simply not realistic, even with both of us working.
The $100 per month that we get for child care, supposedly offering us a “choice,” is a shameful attempt at a political statement that does not actually accomplish much for families. At least it’s something, of course, and I feel awful for those who don’t qualify even for that small amount. But it’s taxable, and even if it were a full $100 per month, what can that get you? A few nights of baby sitting, realistically. The “choice” that this provides us is very little choice at all; the only choice we have is to pay out of pocket large fees for private care that we had to wait years to get into. It allowed us to choose between various day cares that all had ridiculously long wait lists, and few that would take a child under 3. Ultimately it contributed to our choice to have only one child. It did not allow one of us to choose to stay at home, which I would gladly have done if we could have afforded it; but we would not have been able to stay in Vancouver if we were to have taken this route, due to the high housing costs.
Few parents today have the choice whether or not to stay at home; often it is those who are already wealthy who can make this choice. It is certainly not available to those whose incomes are barely above the poverty level, or those who live in places with high costs of living. If I knew a way to turn back the clock so that one income per household would be enough to live comfortably, I’d push for that, so that parents really do have the choice to stay at home if they wish. Until we can figure that out, if it’s even possible, we MUST allow parents the capacity to do what it takes to survive financially AND raise their families in the best way possible. That requires help in the form of day care.
It has not always been the case, everywhere and for all times, that two parents were enough to raise children. If one does not have extended family nearby (and many people in this global economy live far from family members), one absolutely needs to rely on others in their community to help. Do children do worse with MORE people offering quality, attached care, or with only their two parents doing so? I lean towards the former, though of course only research can show for certain.
hello am supportive of your organization. how little society values our most precious resources…remember being a single parent in the late 60’s..no child support..living in a small town and working in the pink ghetto sector (secretary)..moved to edmonton with my 4 year old son and received subsidized child care..i thought i died and gone to heaven. what a difference that made to both of us..yeah trips to the dentist, community outings and participation! yes we do need a national child care policy..i stop at training all single women on assistance to be child care workers a bad idea because women cannot support children on child care workers salaries…unless they are unionized!!! also oppose mandating women on assistance with children to work..our bc gov’t did a real number on that one…it’s economically impractical to ask a women with 3 kids to work full time at min. wage….we need to raise the minimum wage or better yet put a liveable income into place so women and kids can live in some dignity.
raise welfare rates to reflect the rising rents!
When I was pregnant and started looking for childcare I wasn’t in total shock at how hard it was. I had heard all the rumours of how hard it would be to find childcare and to start looking early. With the expenses of putting your child on wait lists (often $25 and up per location) and then the total lack of spots my husband and I started getting worried the closer and closer my return to work came.
We did not have any choices in where we wanted to send our son. With trying to find something on a reasonable commute route we were only ever offered two spots. The first I did not feel totally comfortable with and the daycare worker would be out of town for 6 weeks or so that we would have been high and dry for daycare anyways. The second position was alright, but not in a very convenient location for my husband. The stress of taking my son to daycare has been hard on our whole family.
When I read that we ranked 25th out of 25 developed countries with regards to our childcare I again was not totally surprised but was sad for the state of our child care. For being such a proud Canadian I am now a dissapointed and stressed mother that wishes our child care options could be less expensive, standardized and more readily available.
Hello I am the Mother of 3 wonderful boys. The oldest are 4 year old twins.
Until last year I was not able to place them in daycare. There were no spaces for toddlers. My Husband and I both had well paying union positions, however I was only able to work when he was at home during the evenings and on weekends. This option is not condusive to the family environment people hope for. Leaving us to do things as single parental units.
During the first 3 years of their lives we had to take out over $20,000.00 in a line of credit on the equity in our home. (Thankfully we were able to do this) When the boys were 2 I went to school to complete a diploma in Healthcare. I was able to do this only because of an EI program that funded people who had been on EI and I had been on maternity. ( I had been a Flight attendant but found it impossible to go back to flying with 2 infants.)
Last year when the boys turned 3 we were able to place them in a local daycare. It is a great facaility. It is very busy and has also just opened up an infant section. However the ladies who work there are not paid enough to look after our children.
The infant section may prove to be useful to us this year as we welcomed another baby boy to our family this past september. However they may not have space for us, as of right now we are on the waiting list.
I have spoken with subsidy. The said they would cover the 2 hours a day of a licensed preschool that is offered at this daycare. But I still have two boys that would require another 6 hours a day. Because we need 8 hours. 6 hours puts us over the half day mark so we would still be paying for full days which are $32.00 a day for each alder boy. Thats $64.00 a day. The infant is $50.00 a day! This is actually inexpensive compared to some of the prices in bigger centres.
Sooooo I make $19.00 an hour not too bad right? Well if you can add the figures above I need to make $114.00 a day just to cover care for my children. This allowes me to bring home $4.75/hour. (Add the figures thats $570.00 a week or $2280.00 a month, WHAT!) This is 3X our monthly mortgage payment.
We borrowed more money to get through this past year with our new son and are now in debt over $32,000.00 just to have stayed at home with our children. Even with EI which is only 50% of your income ($8.00 an hour) our monthly expenses are such that we needed 1 thousand dollars more a month to pay the bills.
Our mortgage payment is quite low compared to some $850.00 and we moved to a rural town where housing prices were half of what they were in the bigger centres.
I dont know what to do? How is one family supposed to be able to afford this?
The other kicker is that the twins are January babies so they dont even get to enter the publicly funded school system next year, thay have to wait another whole year. So even thoug we were unable to place them in daycare until they were 3 we will still have paid three full years of daycare by the time the go to Kindergarten. It doesnt stop there though, kindergarten is only half days, we will still have to pay for the other half of 5 days a week x2 + the other child still in daycare.
HELP!
I have thought for years that childcare and unemployment should be solved together. For many single mothers on assistance it doesn’t make sense to go to work, by the time they pay for childcare they might as well have stayed at home on assistance.
Instead of the government selling all the schools they have shut down, why not train unemployed mothers and have them run childcare at all these facilities, other working mothers could drop their kids their for free as the government is paying to maintain the unused buildings anyway and they are paying single mothers on assistance to stay at home, why not make use of all options, as single mothers gain confidence and workskills from daycare providing they could later upgrade into the workforce to higher paying jobs also and rotate in some younger moms as time goes on.
Makes sense to me,
M. Engh.
i was not eligible for childcare subsidy with three children, twin boys 9 years old and a 4 year old daughter, not even partial coverage how can that be? when before wanting to return to the work force total combined family income was less that 28,000 a year, my husband fell ill with cancer last year losing over 6 months of work, he was not working when i applied for subsidy.
i completed an internship to return to the work force only to find that my one time paid internship didn’t even cover childcare expenses. i was making $16.00 hour working three days a week, with that being said, we are going into poverty badly, i can’t get a student loan not other source of income
i can’t afford to go back to school, i can’t even find a job that pays more than $9.00 hour, i am restricted to being able to work only weekends, it still does not bring in enough to make ends meet.
based on articles i have found it states that 30% of canadian parents are stay at home parents, in 2008 over 53% were working parents, i wish a survey could be done regarding what the actual percentage base is for those who are not qualified, for subsidy it seems that the % that do stay at home have fallen thought the cracks of not being able to return to the work force due to this issue. based on the stories i have read from parents as well as caregivers i thought i was alone in my situation, i think its time to send a message to the government, we can’t get results without surveys, where i live childcare fees are on the rise $40.00 per day!
it would be good for everyone who has issues relating to subsidy or as a childcare provider to ask friends, or others in their community to fill in a survey. it also took over 8 months for my application to go though just to tell me i am not qualified. i also found that single moms were being cut off when their income reached $15,000 childcare subsidy to help parents ya right! it would be good for this site to create surveys. we all need help we are all suffering, something needs to be done.
jennifer, Cumberland BC
I am a single mom of 2.5 year old twins. I am out of pocket $624 per month for daycare. I get the minimum amount of subsidy. My twins and I are really struggling right now. I have a good job with good pay but some how we still have no money left and are constantly struggling just to buy groceries!
Daycare costs are slowly pushing us closer to poverty.
I was just reassessed for childcare subsidy and found out I no longer qualify. I have 9 year old twins and my costs have suddenly gone up almost $400/month! I am a single mother with a very good job, but I live in Vancouver and pay ridiculous rent. I moved here to be closer to medical care as one of my sons is disabled. Now not only do I have to pay more for childcare, I have to make a decision about medical equipment I can afford…should I get his leg brace or his hearing aids first? No child in his condition should have to go without, but I am now put in this place. Difficult choices to make thanks to a backwards program and underfunded spaces.
I want to return to work part-time. I was informed by one of the few quality centres where I live that my son could not attend daycare part-time until he was two years old.
There is pressure for women to work, and to produce children, but no support. I should not have to worry about putting my child with an untrained, undocumented childcare provider because quality care is not available.
Heading into the upcoming federal election, I am learning as much as I can about the different policies and platforms being presented by the different parties. I’ve started posting my findings and my story on my blog:
http://pattyspage72.blogspot.com/
Check it out if you’d like to comment on my postings and add your thoughts to conversation. Let’s make an informed decision in the next election and make our vote count toward making a difference in the child care crisis in this country.
- Patty
Recently I was told after my son started first grade that I no longer qualified for a daycare subsidy.
My income was the same level as when he was in kindergarden but they told me that because my son had turned six that the formulas changed.
To have my son in before and after school care I am charged 320.00 per month.
Is take home pay of 1860.00 per month to much to get assistance? I am told it is by the provincial government.
When my son was 3 I took home 2300.00 per month and they paid for 550.00 a month leaving me to pay only 40.00 a month. Now that he is six and I earn less money I am penalized.
The law says he cannot stay at home by himself ( not that I would do that anyway!!) and the government has also legislated that a child over six somehow isn’t as important as one who is three? Does this make any sense?
Thanks for listening,
Erin
Coquitlam, BC
I am a single mother in Edmonton, Alberta, with one six year old boy left at home, and no family left in the area. I understand all too well the frustration you are all sharing, as I too have struggled to find a way to balance the needs of my children, with my need to be in the workforce full time. I chuckle (sadly) with the earlier writer who wonders why the small government subsidy of $100 stops when the child turns 6. Has it now been determined by those “all knowing” powers in Ottawa, that 6 is a suitable age for a child to start fending for themselves before and after school? I have a flexible job at this stage in my life; but I can remember a time when my 16 year old was this age, and wonder how she would’ve fared. If I’d had to leave to catch my bus (going North to downtown) at 7:30, leaving her in the locked house with her back-pack, latch-key and winter-wear waiting for a timer to go off, signalling her to get out to her bus; I would have been sick every day with worry.
My heart breaks for all the families that struggle with this every day, and I’m infinitely grateful that my current position allows me those 9-3 hours that we all dream of when our kids are this age. It’s not the same as it was when I was a kid, and most of our Windsor Park mothers were home at the start and the end of the school day, and we knew all our neighbours. I initially found this site because I was thinking about one of those childhood neighbours who moved to BC in the 70s, my best friend in those days actually, Jennifer Thorne, and I googled her name. She might be your May 8 post in this thread, or she might not, I suppose. Either way, glad I visited.
Jayne Nicol
Edmonton, Alberta
jgnicol@canada.com
I believe that government officials should not make decisions they know little or nothing about, one being child care. If you have not walked in the shoes of being a single parent or a low income family then who are you (politicians) to make a decision that will influence families.
A family is diverse and encompasses many different situations and circumstances and does not fit one stereotype, but our subsidy calculations and program are ridged in their expectations and outcomes. Frustrating and defeating to many many families.
Wait list, space limits and age caps on programs increases health and safety risk to both families and communities.
The cost of care for parents and wages earned are insufficient thus a formula for disaster impacting the family unit.
Wages for child care staff are inadequate with little or no benefits being paid by employer.
This profession is mentally, physically, emotionally encompassing with health and safety risks most can not comprehend. The lack of reasonable and adequate wages/benefits is the major reason for shortage of staff.
The government devised a plan to entice ECE’s back into the field who left the field mostly because of low wages and this has not changed in the last 5 years.
If we believe in the children of this country and the impact of early years being so significant then why why why haven’t things changed to meet the demands of child care?
Is it because those making these decisions really don’t care? is it they don’t understand? is it they can’t see the importance? is it because of the all mighty dollar?
What is holding the government back from making the right decision for children and families in Canada a priority?
I was shocked to learn that it was advised I put my name on a waitlist for daycare before my child was even born! Now that I’m getting ready to return to work, I’m finding that there aren’t nearly as many daycare spots available for infants as there should be. I understand that the ratio is (and should be) 4:1, but can’t believe the costs I’m being quoted - I live in the Tri-Cities, and FT daycare for infants averages at $950 to $1000 a month!!!! I’ve yet to find a single daycare that has all the qualities I’m looking for that isn’t in the opposite direction of where I have to go to work. I want it to be clean and bright and sanitary, not next to high traffic roads, not next to parks where there are homeless people hanging out all day, with qualified and caring childcare workers who give you a good feeling on your first impression. One daycare I’m on a waitlist for won’t be able to tell me whether I’ve got a spot until closer to my return to work date. They told me that I should DEFINITELY be on several waitlists. The situation is causing alot of stress for sure.
I was able to use out of school care provided by a community association in a building on school property until they lost their subsidy and was forced to charge more than $20 a day for after school care. I felt forced to change schools in order for my child to be able to walk to my work after school where for free she can sit in an empty office all by herself for two hours each day rather than get to spend quality time playing and getting help with her homework from qualified staff.
I am sad that I cannot aford $400 a month for childcare, but angry for my child as she is being ripped off! children need open spaces, appropriate activities and safe care options and as a parent I should be able to find affordable care in our local area.
lets take a lesson from Quebec and provide affordable child care for all families! our children deserve the best!
I am a single mother of a 6 year old boy. For almost 4 years i was getting help from the government to pay for my child’s daycare. Now they won’t help me they say i make too much money. HOW DOES A SINGLE MOTHER MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY? especially in this day and age. I pay more for daycare than i do for rent. I happen to work in the childcare industry as an Early Childhood Educator and i have been for 5 years. I left one centre for another because of better pay and since i’ve done that i now make too much. I am struggling more now than ever. Sometimes i feel i should just stay home and not work. I work to pay for childcare and i’m angry and frustrated that everyone talks about lowering childcare fees and getting a better system but still nothings being done about it. I say enough talking and start taking action. Also as an Early Childhood Educator i do feel strongly that we are underpaid for what we do.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the ignorance that comes with it does nothing to address the issue. All too often I hear the criticism: ‘parents, stay home with your children’. Most parents will agree that a stay-at-home mom or dad is the ideal; in fact, many have the plan to do so when they choose to have children in the first place. But here’s that sad truth: we live in a society with a 50% divorce rate, and these break-ups usually occur in the first years of a child’s life. The courts generally support a 50/50 custody split, recognizing that a child should have equal access to both parents – which is a great thing for the kids. Mothers or fathers who previously stayed home with their kids are expected to get back into the workplace in order to contribute financially – spousal support has become a thing of the past. This means that both parents MUST work, and are no longer supporting one household, but two.
Yes, there is criticism for that as well. People will say ‘don’t get married in the first place if you’re not going to see it through’. But again, few people get married knowing that it won’t last. Abuse, cheating, neglect are all unforeseeable until you are faced with it. The thought of knowing your kids are witnessing this behaviour is heart-wrenching, and splitting up is often the only way to save the kids from the abuse, or just as bad, repeating this behaviour.
That being said, let’s talk about the problems associated with getting back on your feet. If you must work, then you need childcare – plain and simple. This problem does not vanish when your child goes to school, either. There are few employers out there offering jobs that run from 9-2 (remember that you need to allow commuting time), and will give you time off for professional days, early dismissals, and the summer, winter and spring break vacations. If you are lucky enough to have an education, and can find a job with those hours, you just might get by. However, with the cost of housing, fuel, food, clothing, i.e. the bare necessities, the majority need to work full time. The suggestion that employers open daycares in the office is great, however once your child hits school age, this is no longer a viable option. This should be obvious, but let’s just clarify this with an example. Mary has a job with XYZ Company, which offers daycare and out of school care for the neighbouring school. She is able to transfer her child into her workplace ‘catchment school’, and knows that her child is safe and well cared for. Then, the company downsizes, and Mary loses her job. Result? Her child will lose the daycare (obviously, she won’t need it anymore since she isn’t working). However, finding another job means changing schools and finding a new daycare, and if you understand the registration process for schools, you will know that is pretty difficult. Couple that with a need for a new daycare, and it’s darn near impossible. Yup, back to square one, with a very upset and confused child.
Consider this alternative. Mary finds her local school offers out-of-school care which covers professional days, summer breaks etc. She can accept just about any job, since she knows her child will not be affected by her working circumstances. She can pay her bills, not needing to rely on the welfare system. She knows her child is safe, and is having fun doing arts and crafts, or playing in the playground with her friend, or getting after school help with her homework.
Here’s the catch. There are very few schools which offer that care, and those that do often have huge wait lists. The government has cut subsidies to child care providers, so their costs have risen dramatically. There just aren’t enough child care workers willing to work for minimum wage, and the schools charge too much for rental space to make the option viable to anyone but a non-profit organization (daycare is not part of the school board’s mandate). Since schools are closing because of lower registration, other schools must compensate for the overflow. As a result, there are not enough empty classrooms to rent. Portables are being removed, teachers laid off, and schools are being sold off.
But, what if out-of-school care did become part of the mandate? More teachers and ECE qualified staff would be needed (and yes, that means some teachers could work in the summers as well), more parents would have access to the care they need, and the schools could utilize the rooms used for out-of-school care as ‘utilized space’, decreasing the need to close schools, and sell them off. Most parents would happily pay for that service, and those that needed a subsidy could apply. The parents not needing it would not have to pay for the additional service. This would ease up the waitlists for licensed family based daycares, who could then make room for the younger children needing care – increasing the amount of spaces available for the infant, and preschool group. I think a lot of licensed family daycares would rather receive $800 per month for a child full-time, than charge $350 for the same space for out-of-school care (since it is only part time). Remember, family daycares are limited to how many children they can have at any one time in their home. Think about it: the children are already there, they do not need additional transport to a new location after school, the playgrounds and gyms are already existing - it’s the obvious place for them.
I’d suggest to the Federal Government that you keep your $100 taxable dollars, but that doesn’t really qualify here. I guess the thought is that once your child is 6 years old, parents no longer need childcare – so you no longer receive even that paltry sum to help decrease your child care fees. Unfortunately, that is when most parents need it the most. In the early years, you can at least try to stay home, but it’s hard to justify being home and on welfare when your children are in school for 7 hours per day. So many are forced to leave their children home alone because they have no other choice – wouldn’t it be great if there was a better option?
Think of how much community space currently being used for out of school care (churches, community centres etc) that could be converted to more spaces for infants and toddlers! Opening up the empty classrooms would do just that! It’s a win-win situation for all. If we all just stopped minimizing each other’s needs, and started working together to share the responsibility, we could solve a lot of problems faced by society today. We just need to recognize that we are a community, and that the needs of all are important!
Jennifer Thorne
Richmond resident